This is gonna hurt, but the Royals should at least look at trading Joakim Soria

I believe the object of the game is to make it easier on Grienke, Hochevar, Bannister and Meche to win a game, not harder. Trading Soria would be a big mistake. Sadly, the Royals best trading chips are Grienke, Soria and Butler and they are not going to be traded and they should not be traded either. Hochevar to a National League team would be a good bet, as he would flourish in that league and the Royals could get something of value in return.

felix2

At least we KNOW he can hit homeruns at the K.

Sam, the object is to buy low and sell high...so you're on the right track with this one, except for one thing. Well, six things, actually:
1. Rafael Soriano
2. Mike Gonzalez
3. Fernando Rodney
4. Jose Valverde
5. Kevin Gregg
6. Billy Wagner

Those six things are the veteran closers on the market this winter. True, none of them look quite as shiny as Soria, but the market has a glut at the moment.

You don't sell your Ferrari during the offseason, when cooler heads have time to prevail, and other Ferraris are on the market. You sell it in the middle of the season, in the heat of a pennant race, when someone else's Ferrari is looking fallible.

The Royals need to consider trading Soria. However, closers are funny in tha they typically are highly regarded by their own teams and sometimes in free agency, but I don't remember many big trades for them. So, I doubt that Soria has sufficient trade value to trade him. And, of course, Moore has not distinguished himself in the ability to assess major league ready players in trades.

But with as many weak spots as the Royals have in the line up, a trade that produced two good everyday players would need to be very seriously considered.

I love these guys who want to trade players like baseball cards; gotta love 'em. Seriously, Soria is part of your nucleus and you can't trade him for what he's worth to you. All those games they won with Soria closing - you're going to put those in jeopardy now?

Look at it this way: The team was doing fine until injuries happened. Take Crisp and Guillen out and you've lost your 1 and 4 hitters. Gordon gets hurt and he was a middle of the order guy. If you were to add those guys back healthy for the entire season, you've got a different club.

Dayton Moore is doing a great job. You just can't fill all the holes in a couple of years. And to the guy who says Mous and Hosmer will be up in a couple of years - you do not know if either will ever be a bonafide major league player. If people could tell that, then Brett would have been a first rounder in the draft. You never know - and that's why when you got a guy like Soria, you keep him. He's proven winner and one of the best at his position in all of baseball.

Both sides make great points as to whether to trade or not to trade.

To trade:
1. Soria has value and is at his maximum worth.
2. He could net at least one valuable position player.
3. With the minors still several years away from producing, trading a closer on a team that struggles to score runs for a position player (OF, 2B, 3B, C) could be more valuable to a developing team like the Royals.
4. If Glass isn't going to spend money on immediate FA help then what good will Soria do on this team. Closers have worth on teams that are playoff bound, not perennial cellar dwellers.

To hold:
1. Moore has a very questionable history in making trades thus far. To not get at least one front line starter would be a disaster.
2. Greinke. 2012 isn't that long away and if the Royals don't show that they are serious, there is no way Greinke will WANT to re-sign with KC. So Moore will have to decide by the end of next season, if not by the trade deadline, if keeping Greinke is viable. If not, they'll have to consider trading Greinke as soon as next off-season or by the 2011 trade deadline in order to avoid another Dye/Beltran fiasco. Trading Soria would signal that the Royals are NOT going to take advantage of what they have now. And with the minors still several years away, perception would be that the Royals are running up the white flag on contending anytime before 2012. Greinke, seeing this, will most certainly not accept an extension for another tour of duty with on the hapless Royals. Greinke follows Soria out the door within 2 years.
3. Relievers don't normally net a lot. The Royals need to make bold moves but unfortunately, a closer, even one as good as Soria, just doesn't net the kind of trade value that a starting pitcher or a position player would. The thought across the league, as evidenced by our own GM, is that a team can find a closer in their own system without giving up a front line guy. And the good teams are good enough to get by without a shut down guy until the trade deadline when they are better prepared to make a go-for-broke deal. There's always a closer available at the deadline.
4. Timing: Trading Soria in the offseason would probably net much less than say at the 2010 trade deadline when a team is desperate.

One other point that could go in the 'To Trade' column. Hillman. He's proven time and again that he's incapable of using Soria properly. However, I decided to leave this reason off because, it would be foolish to trade your closer because your manager doesn't know how to use him.

So it's a push really.

Personally, I want him to stay. A couple of months ago, I was in favor of shopping Soria. But due to the above listed reasons not to trade Soria, I've realized that this is simply fools gold. They only have ONE valuable piece that would net enough (barely) to make a trade worthwhile and that's Greinke. They can't trade Greinke right now, for too many reasons to get into. Soria just doesn't net enough and Glass and the Royals have to make a move to contend now. They should spend like drunken sailors on some FA's and put together a .500 contending season in the next year or 2 to show Greinke & others that they're serious. They have the building blocks right now. It's time to go for it while they are waiting for the minors. And frankly Glass owes it to the fan base to make a real effort at contending. There's no salary cap to keep Glass from spending some money for the next 3 years on real MLB talent while the minors are rebuilt. Keeping Soria means keeping Greinke. Keep Soria, build around him, Greinke & Butler and let's not waste the next 3 years watching great talent go to waste.

I understand the excitement about exploring the option of a Soria trade, but after considering everything, I think it would be a mistake. If I had a Ferrari in the garage, I'd still drive it over potholes. I'd drive that thing until my heart was content. As for an injury concern, look what Carpenter did this year with his comeback-don't let injury concerns dictate a trade. Soria is a machine, not perfect, but damn close and he's convinced me that he is money. I think if we are building a contender, we hold onto guys who have proven they belong in the All-Star game. Also, if you look at the young guys we have coming up in the farm system, it's not crazy to think that we might be able to compete with home grown guys by 2012. Sure that is the last year of Greinke's contract, but let's work at extending him with some record deal once Meche and Guillen are off the books. Greinke is the keystone to this teams future and Butler and Soria are also important. We can't keep turning players over and ever expect to build a winner. I have zero faith in DM at this point, but I'd like to believe that some of the kids they are drafting turn out to be special and don't need a genius GM to make it to the Bigs and be great. I think its just a matter of time before KC has a very interesting team, but I think trading Soria would be taking another step backwards. The only way somebody could convince me to trade Soria is if I were to know that one of our young arms could be as good, and there's no way to know that yet.

You are forgetting that there are at least 6 or 7 closers available in free agency or through trades this offseason. Then factor in that the Cubs and Rays are really the only contenders with a serious need and the chances of getting a good enough offer for Soria are very slim.

The fact that the Royals have so many holes to fill makes a trade of Soria unlikely to net any immediate impact in return for trading him. Closers are hard to find, the Royals have a good one. Why get rid of him, especialy with the favorable contract?

The truly sad thing is that when you look at the Royals you have probably five (5) players that have varying forms of "value" to another MLB club - Greinke, Soria, Butler, Teahan and Dejesus. Beyond this group, other Royals (including Gordon and Hochevar at this point) are worthless from a trade value standpoint. The problem is that only Greinke would likely bring enough valuable prospects in return to make a deal worthwhile. However, you'd be foolish to trade your MVP at this time, given his performance, age and contract status.

This regime hasn't made any savvy trades to this point and I have no confidence that they could pull anything off that benefits this team in the long term. This team sucks and it is going to take a long time to rebuild it when you only have 5/25 players that have value to another team.

I believe in building it from the ground up and I'd have more respect for the organization if they'd just jettison the garbage players like Guillen and Betancourt and go with the kids you have in the minors. Sure it's crazy and not popular when you are selling tickets at the major league level, but what the organization is doing now by recycling castoffs is closer to water torture than simply treading water.

for the second worse shortstop in baseball, and cooincedently he also traded for the worst - Tony Pena Jr. I want to echo what other posters are saying, I don't have enough faith in this regime to advise them to make any trade, the more they do the worse this roster gets.

Zack is the only untouchable Royal this off-season. You can't trade him without being run out of town.

Everyone else should be on the table.

I do think the team's psyche crumbled in the wake of the Soria injury, and it never recovered. There is a special confidence that comes from playing in front of a shut-down closer. I think they left the hotel knowing they had less of a chance to win because Soria wasn't back there, and it affected much of what happened during the slide.

I don't think it mattered as much as Guillen and Jacobs sucking so badly, for example, but I don't think it is entirely coincidental that the slide happened at the same time, regardless of how many ninth inning save opportunities there were.

Before last season, I was in favor of leaving Soria as the closer...because well it's cool. And, that does have some value. But, now I think the right gamble is to try Soria as a starter. Try Hochevar as a reliever...possibly closer. Hochevar clearly has stuff, but consistency is a problem...another issue for another day.

Trading Soria is a bad risk for several reasons:

1) I have no faith in DM's ability to evaluate acquisitions. Anybody who signs Guillen, Jacobs, and trades for Betancourt as the three biggest moves is suspect. All of those moves looked bad on paper...they didn't just back fire.

2) Soria is a proven commodity and I don't see us getting that same value back. Sure, if the potential comes through it might be ok. But, it's just that...potential.

3) Soria gives this team a chance to be more competitive now, which I believe is important to building a winning culture. If you completely write off a season, that season's losing will affect the next season.

That said, if we can get a top-10 shortstop, 2nd baseman, Centerfielder, and Catcher and unload the Farnsworth, Guillen, and Bentancourt contracts I'm all for it. Just in case, that's a swipe at all of those people who suggest the "Teahen for some other team's all-star" or similar type trades.

THel

Do you have any suggestions of trades that could potentially help? I don't want to trade a very good player for two or three average ones. I think most teams value position players more than closers, so I would think that we would have to trade for potential to get a shot at getting our value for Soria, and that comes with a huge risk.

Am I the only one who remembers that Soria was a starter when we got him, and tossed a perfect game 3 days after the Rule 5 draft? Sam's right, this team does not need a lights out closer. But it could sure use a good starter. Having Soria pitch 50 mostly meaningless innings of meaningless seasons is moronic. Having him pitch 180 innings is much smarter - which is why Treyton won't entertain the thought.

unknownroyalsfan.wordpress.com

It took Street plus a couple of prospects (one I believe was pretty highly rated) to get Holliday, so I don't think that's a good example.

Everything I've heard seems to point at quite a few closers being available this winter. If there's anything resembling a glut, it wouldn't be a good time to get top value for Soria.

That said, I don't think he should be traded anyway. The argument that closers are unnecessary luxuries on bad teams is ridiculous. Bad teams want to win games too, and it's not like he doesn't get opportunites. And all teams, good or bad, need relief pitchers. I do have arguments about Hillman's usage of Soria, though, and feel that he should be out there every three or so games minumum no matter the situation, because he's simply more effective when used regularly.

It's not like Soria is expensive, either. The Royals are not spending money on him that would be better spent elsewhere...unlike certain other drags on the roster who shall remain nameless. I think there are better ways to fix the street.

With the time spent on the DL this year and for the reasons he went on it, that is all I need. His value is at a peak and he can put the Royals in the command and demand role at the trading table for once. Even Beltran's trade situation had other teams basically holding our front office hostage knowing that KC wouldn't pony up the $$ and the trade deadlines were looming. With Soria, GMDM could easily hold him and the only risk is that he goes on the injury report again.

As much as I despise the Yankees being decent again, that actually works in KC's favor for guys like Soria or even Gordon (hint). Teams in the AL East will do anything to compete including give away quality just to gain one piece of the puzzle.

I'll never understand why people want to trade an all-star level guy at a position that is tough to find or develop.

Mellinger makes the best argument himself against trading Soria...that fact that good closers are nearly IMPOSSIBLE to find. He lists a handful of guys who compare with Soria and talks about how many teams can't find a great closer. So basically the argument here is that you trade the lightning in a bottle you stumbled upon, then hope that lightning strikes again for you?

Sure, we don't get Soria as many save opportunities as we all want. But the point is that when the Royals DO produce a late lead, Soria finishes the game with a W for us. It's no longer a question if we are going to hold a one-run lead heading into the ninth.

This is the Jared Allen trade all over. Jared was a dominating pass rusher, which is very hard to find in the NFL, because its a tough skill to master. There are lots of pretty good, but not GREAT pass rushers in the NFL. But we weren't winning with him, so we traded him. Guess what? We have NO pass rush and it will take us years to find someone who brings what Allen brought to the D-line. Why, because every other team in the league is desperate for that skill. Anyone think Allen's pass rushing ability wouldn't make a different in the close games the Chiefs have lost this year?

To see just how bad this trade idea is, let's look at it from the other side. Why would any of the teams mentioned above trade promising young hitters coming into their prime for Soria? Because you can go find or develop the next young promising hitter (isn't that what we did with Billy Butler) or bring in someone else who isn't such a significant down grade at their position. But you simply can't go out and suddenly have a reliable, shut-down closer. Even a guy as talented as Kerry Wood can't master closing games well enough to make the elite level.

Here's an idea, why don't we keep our great finds at hard to fill positions (can we all admit that great pitchers are much more valuable than great hitters because there are fewer truly great pitchers), then go out and try to make other great finds at easier to fill positions?

It's foolish to let go of great players at hard to fill positions. When you start doing that, you do yourself years of damage. This trade isn't something that would harm the Royals for next season, but for the next three or four years.

i'd do it for upton and jennings :)

I see the logic, but I have no faith that this regime can get fair value for him.