Smoke, fire, trade rumors and the Royals

Smoke, fire, trade rumors and the Royals

Maybe you heard about the unfortunate post on the usually unreliable Bleacher Report website over the weekend. The writer had a "rumor" that had the Brewers considering sending J.J. Hardy, Manny Parra and two prospects to the Royals for -- wait for it -- Zack Greinke.

If this is the first you heard of it, I'll wait while you cycle through the normal emotions.

"WHAT?!?"

(shakes head in disgust)

"What kind of IDIOT.....?!?!"

"Why would ANYBODY....?!?"

"Stupid Al Gore and his internet..."

OK, good to have you back.

The purpose of today's post is not to crush the writer* or pile on talking about how stupid that rumor is, and one that should be laughed at instead of written about.

* Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain the Bleacher Report bloggers are volunteers or get paid next to nothing for what they do. It's a labor of love, and that's hard to make fun of with a clear conscience.

No, what this post is intended to point out is just how difficult it is to come up with a realistic trade idea. It's one of the hardest things about following baseball, either as a fan or reporter.

I mean, we can look at Matt Holliday and feel fairly certain he'll sign for seven years and $110 million or so this offseason. That will be a little off, but I'd bet a slab from Oklahoma Joe's that it's in the ballpark.

But these trades? Almost impossible. Would the Brewers have to throw in Ryan Braun to make that trade realistic? Braun and another prospect? Braun, Prince Fielder and the rights to Miller Park? Who the hell knows?

These things really pick up momentum at the winter meetings, where I once heard a colleague joke that he wanted to completely make up a trade idea, tell a few writers, and then a day or two later do a story pointing out how many places reported it.

I laughed, thought it was a brilliant idea, but then quickly imagined myself getting fooled. Then it wasn't as funny. Or brilliant.

Once, in a casual conversation a few years ago, a member of the Royals' front office gave me a homework assignment. He wanted me to come to him with a doable trade idea that would make the Royals better.

"And realistic," he said. "Don't have us trading Jimmy Gobble for Albert Pujols."

The next few days or so, I wore out Baseball-Reference and Baseball Cube and all the other nerdy sites even more than usual. I came up with something, I can't remember exactly what, but I vaguely recall suggesting either DeJesus or Teahen to the Cubs for a deal involving Ryan Theriot and other parts.

The Royals' executive considered it for a few seconds, acknowledged that it made sense in the obvious ways I pointed out, then listed two or three reasons it didn't make sense, reasons that I hadn't considered and most likely never would've known without that conversation.

I will acknowledge my obvious bias here, but if you're a Royals fan wanting to know which rumors to take seriously and which to ignore, follow the lead of The Star's excellent Royals beat writer, Bob Dutton.

If he writes about it -- even quoting a Royals source shooting it down -- it means there's some fire behind the smoke. The rumors about Teahen going to Cleveland for Franklin Gutierrez a year or two back come to mind. Real fire behind that smoke.

But if Dutton's ignoring it, you can probably be safe doing the same.

All that said, there is an unfounded rumor about a trade that isn't being talked about on any real level, but will be discussed here this week -- not because the Royals are thinking about it, but because they should.

Submitted by Sam Mellinger on October 19, 2009 - 7:34am.
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Submitted by plivvy on October 20, 2009 - 9:46pm.

I wouldn't trade Greinke for anyone. If/when the Royals make the playoffs you just can't replace that type of starter. No matter who we got in return, you just can't replace an ACE. If Greinke were in the last year of his contract and we had NO shot to resign him and were out of the playoff race (see Carlos Beltran), then trade him. But what separates Greinke from other Royals' stars that we had to trade is that he WANTS to be here. He's not all about the money, and though we can't take advantage of that and offer him ridiculously low deals, but we aren't talking about your run-of-the-mill all-star pitcher here. We are talking about a possible future hall-of-famer. You don't just trade those away, especially in Kansas City.
Paul L.

Submitted by MacBackup on October 20, 2009 - 9:07pm.

I would never want to trade Zack, but if a gun was put to my head and i had to come up with one, this might be it.

Zack and Guillen to the Yankees for Cano, Hughes, Chamberlin and a prospect.

We would have 2 starting pitchers for 4 plus years and a power hitting second baseman for 4 years, plus we off load Guillen's contract.

Any thoughts?

Submitted by Jesse_Motiff on October 20, 2009 - 8:44pm.

I think I can offer some unique thoughts on all of this. I am a very big Brewers and Royals fan. I also write for Bleacher Report. I'm actually one of the other Featured Columnist for the Brewers.

I also write for several other sites, but for this story, only Bleacher Report in important.

I was outraged when the article in question was posted on the site. As a freelance journalist trying to "make it", I hate to see articles like that because it makes it that much harder for someone like myself to get noticed and taken seriously.

The article was taken down and then put back up after it was "altered" to be more of a rumor story rather than some sort of breaking news story. I made several comments on the story pointing out how it shouldn't have been posted and why the trade was ridiculous for the Royals.

It bothers me that someone like this is given such a prominent forum to post such garbage. The whole thing started when a local Milwaukee sports radio station first brought it up and the author then ran with his "story".

There is a trade that involves Greinke and the Brewers that would make more sense for both teams but it would also involve the Brewers giving up Prince Fielder and others. But that's neither here nor there.

I am appreciative of the opportunity to have so many outlets to share my thoughts on topics I have a great deal of passion and knowledge about, but I cringe every time I am even remotely affiliated with something like the recent post.

If interested, my work can be found at: http://bleacherreport.com/users/63990-jesse-motiff

In a perfect world, I would love to see both the Royals and Brewers do well. It would give me a lot to write about, but also gives the opportunities to the author in question to do so as well. Such is life in the age of the internet.

Submitted by Otis26 on October 20, 2009 - 1:39pm.

for this team no single trade is going to do enough to make a difference. The main thing that would help would be shedding salary (and the people we have no one wants for what we're paying) or getting some can't-miss prospects who will be ready when Mous and company are (but we have about three players - Greinke, Butler, and Soria - who would generate that kind of deal.)

Bottom line is that this team is loaded with bad contracts and below-average performers and there is very little that is going to make a difference. 2010 will be 2009 Part II unless Glass ups the payroll to $110 million.

It's going to be a long winter and an even longer summer.

Submitted by Old Man Duggan on October 20, 2009 - 1:30pm.

A few months back, the folks at Bleacher Report approached me to see if I wanted to syndicate my blog (link below). I believe Clark Fosler (one of the pair of much better writers than I at Royals Authority) does the same. Their main carrot was increased exposure, and soon they were impressed enough to ask if I'd be interested in being a featured Royals writer.

Anyway, as one of their "Featured Columnists" (each team has three FCs), their hope is to get credentials for their writers to cover events, but as of yet, almost all of their writers are just regular bloggers, many of whom are just "re-published" from other places.

Now, there is a fair amount of material from Bleacher Report that gets picked up by places like SI.com or CBS Sportsline, but to my knowledge the closest thing to payment anyone is receiving there is a press credential--a cool thing to be sure, but it isn't exactly monetary compensation.

As anyone who has every read anything I've written can attest, I have absolutely no insider access to the organizational machinations, but I do not claim to. I'm not sure what this weirdo Brewers fan said, but Bleacher Report writers are simply aggregated bloggers at a central site.

Old Man Duggan at Royalscentricity

Submitted by bilmorte on October 19, 2009 - 11:32pm.

on the other hand...granting that on the surface that that trade sounds like an incredibly stupid idea...let's try going the back road...can you come up with a trade or aquisition rumor involving the royals that is so incredibly asininely stupid and disadvantageous for the royals that you really truly believe that dayton moore would not do it? i, personally, cannot, sad to say.

Submitted by cpass on October 19, 2009 - 3:16pm.

"These things really pick up momentum at the winter meetings, where I once heard a colleague joke that he wanted to completely make up a trade idea, tell a few writers, and then a day or two later do a story pointing out how many places reported it."

From all appearances this is exactly what happened with last year's Francoeur-for-Greinke rumor. The funniest part of that rumor was the follow-up: supposedly the Braves were waiting to see if they could sign AJ Burnett before they would deal "give up" Francoeur for Greinke.

Submitted by cpass on October 19, 2009 - 3:05pm.

Especially since I recall reading a suggested straight up Fielder-for-Greinke proposal on a Brewers blog before. Don't know if it was the same blog. Considered opinion of several commenters (not all, but several) was that the Brewers should do it in a heartbeat.

Oh, and by the way, this was during LAST offseason.

Submitted by goatlockerloung... on October 19, 2009 - 12:57pm.

As Sam points out, it's hard to come up with viable trade scenarios that make sense for both ballclubs. Which is why I get tickled reading all the diatribes on various websites by Royals fans who assert how ridiculously stupid Dayton Moore is, and how they themselves could do a crackerjack job of making personnel decisions.

As disappointed as I was about this past season, I find it reassuring that Dayton will be in place for a few more years - longer if he can get the franchise turned around. His notions about coaching stability, increased focus on Latin American recruiting, drafting players previous regimes would have considered too expensive, and improvement in scouting and minor league development demonstrates he is determined to rebuild the right way - from the ground up.

I personally wish he would fire Trey Hillman. But I respect his judgment, even if lots of his decisions don't work out. That's baseball. Sometimes the player you trade for has a career defining season, which makes you a genius, and sometimes the player you traded for has a season like Mike Jacobs.

I'm convinced we've got the right man calling the shots. But then again, I've been a Royals fan for forty years. How smart can I be?

Submitted by jcblue36 on October 19, 2009 - 11:10am.

I spent a few minutes last night trying very hard to find ANY mention of this rumor on any site other than the Brewer's Blogger site. I assured my friend that mentioned it to me that there were no reliable sources, and a "friend" who "follows this stuff closely" is not a reliable enough source.

Now, if this trade happens, or anything close, then we all look like fools sliding into a tub of beer....

When do the winter meetings start? That's when it gets interesting.

Peace...

Submitted by tanana on October 19, 2009 - 10:45am.

I love even more that Brewers fans believed this to be true and thought the Royals were getting the best deal...

check out this Brewers fans post

I have suggested for a long time and repeat it again that the Brewers should trade for Greinke. KC could likely use / need Hardy, Weeks, Cameron, Burns and Katin - and the Brewers could afford to trade them and get along fine. If KC wants to also trade Soria then the Brewers should include say Weathers plus one (KC choice) of McClung or Narveson and one of Smith or Axford plus Stern or Rogers / Jones ... (again their choice).

yep, if we would just throw in Soria we could get Weathers

PS: The trade you might bring up this week should involve Soria to the Phillies for Dominic Brown (or Michael Taylor) Kyle Drabek and Travis D'arnaud....or would that be too much- i'd bet you a Z Man with roasted chicken or a cheese steak from Geno's someone thinks it is a bad deal in KC and in Philly)

Submitted by cpass on October 19, 2009 - 3:59pm.

From earlier this month that suggested they could get Greinke for their "surplus" players and that they wouldn't have to offer any of their top prospects. I know there's a lot of the world that think Dayton Moore is a few bricks short of a load, but he's not a complete idiot.

(Oh yeah, and DM should also HURRY UP and grab any off from the Brewers to pick up 40 year old Dave Weathers for Joakim Soria. What a bargain for the Royals!)

Submitted by ryanbraun8 on October 19, 2009 - 11:56am.

Trust me, no true Brewer fan believed this rumor to be true. This blog was/is getting slammed just as much in Milwaukee by sports radio, the paper and beat writers, as it is in KC. The Brewers beat writer actually posted a link to this article on Twitter. That Brewer fan suggesting it was fair/real and even throwing in Weathers was either delusional or just a plain idiot. Please don't lump all Brewer fans in with a couple idiots with access to chat rooms and obviously too much time on their hands and or too much Brewer kool-aid to drink.

Submitted by Hooligan on October 19, 2009 - 9:00pm.

Isn't "Brewer kool-aid" made by Miller? Seems like the guys posting stuff on that blog must be a few cases into it...

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