Help me build the ultimate Royals roster...please?

Woke up in downtown St. Petersburg today, and I'm looking forward to seeing how this area is dealing with their suddenly great Rays.

Is this a full embrace, complete with knowledge and understanding, like maybe the Tigers' turn a few years back?

Is it happy and elated, but no real clue about what it all means, like maybe the Rockies or Kansas football last year?

Or is it an obnoxious entitlement, like they've always rooted for a team this good, like some think is going on with Missouri football now?

But in the meantime, I'm looking for your help.

I joined up in this historical fantasy/simulation baseball league that has all the possibilities of doing anything from being over my head to taking over my life.

Some of the others in the league include Joe Posnanski, Mike Vaccaro and even Curt Schilling -- so, yeah, I need your help.

Each guy takes over a franchise and the first step here is to create a 40-man roster with anyone who played for that franchise.

I've got the Royals, which means we might be up against it when we play the Yankees or something, but in the meantime means we need to build the ultimate, all-time Royals roster and I can't think of a better place to look for help than with the fine readers of this blog.

Anyway, all players who spent time with the Royals are eligible, but their stats and skill are only simulated from the time they were with the Royals.

So, for instance, if we took Harmon Killebrew as a Royal we'd get the 1975, .199-hitting version, not the the 1969, 140-RBI MVP and Hall of Famer that played for the Twins.*

* I wonder if whoever has the Marlins will use Mike Piazza as the catcher?

Now, a lot of these are pretty obvious, so I hope we don't spend a lot of time with suggestions that we take that George Brett guy at third base.

We need a full 40-man roster, but it might be easier to start with a 25-man and then fill in from there. All the stats will be neutralized.

Here are the slam dunks, at least as I see them while sitting in this hotel room hungry for breakfast:

George Brett
Frank White
Fred Patek
Mike Sweeney
Carlos Beltran
Willie Wilson
Amos Otis
Bo Jackson (even if he doesn't deserve it. Bo was my childhood hero, this one's non-negotiable.)
Bret Saberhagen
David Cone
Kevin Appier
Paul Splittorff
Larry Gura
Dan Quisenberry
Joakim Soria (it's not too early, is it?)
Jeff Montgomery

That's 16, so nine spots left. This was more or less off the top of my head, so I'm sure I'm missing some obvious ones. Like probably Jermaine Dye. And if you have beef with any of those selections, feel free to make an argument.

I'm not sure what to do with Zack Greinke, he was terrific this past year, but I think his simulation might get bogged down with the few years before this. Unless you can pick the season, which would also be sweet for some of Saberhagen's bipolar performances. I'll get back to you on that.

One thing that's been mentioned is that defensive positions do matter, even in the outfield. So this isn't like a traditional fantasy league where you can load up with three left fielders.

OK, I think that's about it. Let the GM-ing begin.

Submitted by Sam Mellinger on October 9, 2008 - 6:16am.
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Submitted by drugan on January 14, 2009 - 1:16am.

Without question, the Royals will activate and keep on their 40-man both Hochevar and Rosa. Although that puts them one over the limit, that is not really a problem as the current 40-man roster has the likes of Jeff Fulchino and Josh Newman on it.

Luke Hudson is surely going to be cut loose and likely will make it back through to the minor league roster after going unclaimed.

Coming off of an injury himself, I would think Ryan Braun might be able to do the same—it's probably worth the risk to try that and save a roster spot.

Shane Costa's time has probably run with the Royals, but all things being equal he might be worth keeping on the 40 man roster over a Jason Smith.
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Submitted by ACS on November 5, 2008 - 3:32pm.

First Base
Willie Mays Aikens & John Mayberry
Second Base
Frank White & Cookie Rojas
Short Stop
Fred Patek
3rd base - George Brett of course.
Catcher - Jim Sundberg starter. No body handled young pichers like he did. He was an all star with Texas before coming here.
And of course Darryl Porter.
What is the deal with people picking Mike McFarland. Nice guy but he could never throw out base runners and was a so so bat.
Outfield - Al Cowens, Amos Otis, and Hal McRae with Carlos Beltran as another one.
Starting Pitching:
1. Steve Busby - two nohitters with Royals
2. Dennis Leonard
3. Brett Saberhagen - one nohitter with Royals
4. Paul Splittorf
5. Jim Colburn - One nohitter with Royals

Relievers
1. Danny Jackson
2. Mark Gubiza
3. David Cone - one Cy Young with Royals
4. Joakim Soria - could be better than Quiz
5. Kevin Appier
6. Jeff Montgomery

Closers
1. Dan Quizenberry

Submitted by Wild on October 23, 2008 - 6:12am.

You have to include two old Royals on the All Time list.

Dick Drago won 65 games for the Royals in the early years and some of those teams were not so great. He anchored the staff in 1971 when the KC had its first good season.

Cookie Rojas is a must. He solidified the infield and became the sparkplug of the Royals after he arrived in 1970. With him and Fred Patek and Amos Otis, KC had a rock solid defense up the middle which translated into winning. Cookie was also good with the bat.

Why David Cone? He is from KC and was a great pitcher. But he only spent a sliver of his career in KC and did his best work elsewhere.

Submitted by JMGesling on October 20, 2008 - 6:03am.

It's interesting that we haven't seen Greinke on this list. I know his numbers aren't the best, but consider what it might have been this year and last year with a more consistent offense. I can understand why you might leave him off this list if you took stats at face value...but this kid would be a real force if he knew he had good support behind him.

Plus, Aviles needs to be on the list as SS. I agree that SS is the one position that KC has never really had success with...minus Patek and Washington.

Submitted by cdm on October 17, 2008 - 1:28am.

The list that you have is a great starting point. These guys will really contribute to your simulation team:

Darrell Porter: All Star 3 of the 4 seasons in KC. . .also 9th highest OPS in Royals history.

Marty Patton: 6th lowest ERA & 4th lowest WHIP in Royals history. . .as a swing man, so you could use him as your 5th starter and not feel too bad. (Doug Bird is in a similar situation)

Submitted by bgilmore5 on October 17, 2008 - 10:30pm.

Didn't include middle relievers, but I'm sure the starters I included could fill that role. I'm sure I missed some, but here it goes.

C Darrell Porter/Mike Macfarlane
1B Mike Sweeney/John Mayberry/Wally Joyner
2B Frank White/Cookie Rojas/Mark Grudzielanek
SS Fred Patek/U.L. Washington/Greg Gagne
3B George Brett/Kevin Seitzer/Gary Gaetti
LF Johnny Damon/Bo Jackson/David DeJesus
CF Carlos Beltran/Willie Wilson/Amos Otis
RF Jermaine Dye/Danny Tartabull/Al Cowens
DH Hal McRae/Lou Pinella

SP Dennis Leonard
SP Bret Saberhagen
SP Kevin Appier
SP David Cone
SP Charlie Leibrandt
P Larry Gura
P Steve Busby
P Paul Splittorff
P Mark Gubicza
P Danny Jackson
P Bud Black
P Tom Gordon
Cl Joakim Soria/Dan Quisenberry/Jeff Montgomery

Submitted by charlie on October 16, 2008 - 6:56am.

C Tony Pena
1B John Mayberry
2b Frank White
3b George Brett
Ss Freddie Patek
LF Chilli Davis/Kirk Gibson
CF Carlos Beltran/Willie Wilson
RF Amos Otis/Bo Jackson
DH Harmon Killebrew/Hal McRae

SP’s
Brett Saberhagen
Vida Blue
David Cone
Steve Busby
Buddy Black

Submitted by hammy on October 15, 2008 - 10:46am.

Man, no wonder we refer to this as the KU Star. Jeesh...

Submitted by JMGesling on October 20, 2008 - 5:55am.

I have seen quite the Mizzou swing in many stories. I wouldn't go that far.

Submitted by tonkabob on October 14, 2008 - 10:49am.

How do you feel about Dean Palmer? And I'd put Gaetti on to back up GB.

Submitted by waw1504 on October 12, 2008 - 12:12pm.

Every good team needs a dependable lefty from the bullpen.....
Consider Steve Mingori .... six years - from 73 - 78 with an ERA under 3.10....

Consider Steve Busby.....short career - shortened by injury (or overuse) but when he was right, he may have been as dominating as any pitcher to wear the Royal's uniform.

Consider John Wathan... a base stealing catcher....could play lots of positions.... smart player.....

And...under no circumstances should Bo Jackson be removed from your list. Anyone who heard the sound made when his bat connected with a fastball knows what I mean....he was one of a kind......

Submitted by eakers on October 12, 2008 - 8:08am.

Must have list:
Kevin Appier, Hal McRae,

Jay Bell had a spectacular single season at SS: .291 ave, 115 OPS, 21 HR, 92 RBI, 10 SB, 71 BB, .361 OBP. Pretty good year at SS and excellent defensively

Danny Tartabull (massive OPS), Mike Sweeney, Kevin Seitzer, Wally Joyner, excellent OBP and average, even with little power, but a fantastic OPS
Bud Black had some pretty good years with the Royals.

Chili Davis had 30 HR that one year and decent average, 131 OPS. Dean Palmer had a awesome season at 3B for the Royals as well, 34 HR, 115 OPS
Jose Offerman had 3 good years for the Royals including 45 SB in 98
Johnny Damon
Rusty Meacham in 1992. One hell of a year for a RP

Not must haves but good pinch hitters,
Hal Morris had 1 year with the royals, hit over .300

Jim Eisenreich

Jeff King would work well for some power since you have 40 man roster

Mark Quinn

Submitted by jared on October 11, 2008 - 8:49am.

If there is no minimum game requirement you can use Kevin Seitzer as your SS, according to Baseball Reference he played 6 games there during his Royals career.

Submitted by OverTheHillMan on October 10, 2008 - 1:16pm.

How about the work horse of the 80's Charlie Leibrandt, wasn't fancy, but boy did he work a lot of innings.

Submitted by dougkbell on October 10, 2008 - 1:43pm.

Dick Drago,Al Hrabowsky, Flash Gordon, and
Jim Sundberg.

Submitted by kclincoln on October 10, 2008 - 8:16am.

What about Jose Rosado? He had a couple of excellent years before he blew his arm out. Also, since you only count his KC stats Gil Meche might be worth considering.

Submitted by GoRoyals on October 10, 2008 - 5:40am.

HAL McRAE
Al Cowens
Mark Gubicza
Steve Busby
Dennis Leonard
John Mayberry
Joe Randa
Tartabull
Aikens

Submitted by spursman21 on October 9, 2008 - 7:56pm.

Sam, is the new simulation league you just joined happen to be called oneseason.com? let me know if so......

Submitted by Seamhead on October 11, 2008 - 12:43am.

I'll be the one running the league and I want to help Sam clarify a few things here. The league will be hosted at Seamheads.com and will begin at the end of the month (hopefully). The stats will be based on each player's career while with the Royals, so John Mayberry's stats, for example, will only include those he compiled from 1972-1977. Those stats will be averaged out, then neutralized and entered into the computer manually. The sim engine we'll be using is Out of the Park 9 (OOTP9), as Sam already mentioned. The league reports will be posted here if you want to follow along: http://www.seamheads.com/league/html/start.html (We've already uploaded some sample reports for everyone's perusal). It's good to see so many great suggestions and I look forward to seeing the roster all of you come up with.

Submitted by AxDxMx on October 9, 2008 - 6:47pm.

Chili Davis had 30 homers and a 131 OPS+ in his one year with the Royals.

One place to check on royals team history is here:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/KCR/

It gives season by season individual leaders in OPS and ERA.

Submitted by Dave Farquhar on October 9, 2008 - 6:29pm.

Kevin Seitzer was a .300-ish hitter for the Royals. If you can pick his 1987 season, you don't lose everything when Brett is hurt. Joe Randa wouldn't be bad either, and both of them can help out over at 1B if need be.

Now, what about shortstop? Patek is as good as we've ever had but a lightweight against other franchises. I'd be tempted to carry three shortstops (Patek, Stillwell, maybe Aviles) and have Al Cowens and Hal McRae hit for the shortstop every single game. Not sure if you can dictate that level of strategy though.

Pitching... Mark Littell had a couple of good years, spoiled only by Chris Chambliss. He sure could combine with Soria, Monty, and Quiz to make a solid pen.

Submitted by catmatt14 on October 9, 2008 - 4:54pm.

1. John Mayberry -
1972 168 OPS+, 12th in MVP
1973 146 OPS+, 7th in MVP
1974 120 OPS+,
1975 168 OPS+, 2nd in MVP, 38 2B, 34 HR
1976 94 OPS+
1977 99 OPS+

That run should get him on the list.

2. Mike Sweeney -
Relatively healthy years of 99-05 were hard to beat. OPS+ 117-148 over that period.

3. Wally Joyner - slugged better than I remembered

Submitted by catmatt14 on October 13, 2008 - 9:45pm.

I should have used Willie Aikens over Wally Joyner.

Submitted by TDI Guy on October 9, 2008 - 4:29pm.

On SI I read: The only left-handed hitter that Torre would hit for is second baseman Blake DeWitt, who gets replaced anyway when the Dodgers have a lead by defensive specialist Angel Berroa.

Wow--that guy counts as a defensive specialist????

I've always thought the NL were pansies, but that is ridiculous!

Submitted by royals535 on October 9, 2008 - 4:20pm.

the Quiss

Submitted by fade2black on October 9, 2008 - 3:33pm.

jose offerman
BOB HAMELIN
danny tartabull
roger nelson
charlie leibrandt
paul byrd
al cowens
john mayberry
mark littel
john wathan
clint hurdle
marty pattin
willie aikens
mike armstrong
vida blue

Submitted by dont jinx the dirt on October 9, 2008 - 3:20pm.

.... to see someone focus on the pitching staff , have seen one particular name mentioned.
Who started game 5 in the '85 ALCS with their backs to the wall , down 3-1?
George Brett always gave him due credit , even if he only had 3 or 4 good years in the Royals blue....

Don't Jinx The Dirt

Submitted by Jonah Keri on October 9, 2008 - 3:07pm.

My Expos team in said league, consisting of the likes of Tim Raines, Gary Carter, Andre Dawson, Pedro Martinez and Vladimir Guerrero, eagerly await your Royals' challenge, Sam. Bring it on!

http://jonahkeri.com/

Submitted by bobtelos on October 9, 2008 - 5:36pm.

There should be...

Submitted by TDI Guy on October 9, 2008 - 2:16pm.

Yeah...not sure how intangibles help, but Cookie Rojas and Ed Kirkpatrick are the two Royals you cannot overlook. They were reliable, diligent and hard working guys who played tough and always helped the team.

Two of my favorite players from long ago--let's not forget!

Submitted by kcmasters2000 on October 9, 2008 - 11:51am.

Steve Busby, John Mayberry, LOU PINIELLA, Hal McRae, John Wathan, Steve Balnoni, Dennis Leonard, Bob Boone, Willie Aikens, Buddy Biancalana, Vince Coleman, Al Fitzmorris, Kirk Gibson, Tom Gordon, Mark Gubicza, Dick Howser (played 3 years shortstop for the kc athletics), Al Hrabosky, Harmon Killebrew, Brian McRae, Jorge Orta, Gaylord Perry, Cookie Rojas, Danny Tartabul, UL Washington

Submitted by lakewoodroyal on October 13, 2008 - 10:30am.

Yep - I'm with kcmasters2000 on this one.

If we're talking players in their prime - my ultimate Royals team would be Bo Jackson at every position (because according to his commercials, he could) except shortstop. And for that you go with the man who chomped on wood during games, had the best baseball card in the 80's, and was on-base during the "pine-tar" homer for Brett: U.L. freaking Washington.

Gamer.

Submitted by jtuck123 on October 9, 2008 - 11:45am.

...no Juan Gonzalez? No Angel Berroa? No Reggie Sanders? Oh well...I'm going through the list of all the Royals players ever and I'm gonna put some on here...Let's start with:
1. Bud Black - 3.12 ERA in '84, went 17-12 with 140 K's...257 Innings with 89 Earned runs? Sounds good to me...
2. Steve Busby - take a look at '74 and '75...pretty good numbers there...
3. Johnny Damon...maybe? Maybe not?
4. Al Fitzmorris - Another SP...that's really all I seem to be finding...anyway anytime between '73-'76...
5. Gary Gaetti - decent in '95...probably not as good as some other OF's you could find..
6. Dennis Leonard - ehh....why not?
7. John Mayberry - '75 version looks good...
8. Darrell Porter - might be alright...
9. Raul Ibanez - decent...
10. Kevin Seitzer - ??
11. Matt Tupman - take him immediately...OPS = 2.000?? All one of his hits in one at-bat? What does that pan out at over a full season?

Anyway, that's all I can find...maybe I've been of some help...
JT

Submitted by royals535 on October 9, 2008 - 11:41am.

What? no Steve Busby?

Submitted by bryanjtka on October 9, 2008 - 11:44am.

Jermaine Dye. If all three would've stuck around Kauffman, the Royals outfield could've been Johnny Damon, Jermaine Dye, and Carlos Beltran.

Yankees who?

Submitted by bobtelos on October 9, 2008 - 10:29am.

Jose "JoGui" Guillen (20 HR 97 RBI!!1111)
Ross Gload
Tony Pena, Jr. (G-Load and TPJ each save a run a game on defense, according to DMGM, that's like having Gehrig and Ruth at the same time, and DMGM's a "good baseball man," so it must be true)
Scott Elarton -- need someone to inspect team effort

Submitted by Sam Mellinger on October 9, 2008 - 9:54am.

You guys don't mess around, huh? Great stuff here. Clearly, there will be more posts about this. I'll see if I can get the guys at the office to run some sort of poll on here where we can get some votes going.

The commish of the league isn't sure if we have to pick seasons or not, that's something we're trying to get answered.

And the simulation we're using is something called OOTP 9.

Lots of good options here, you guys (and gals) are effing great.

Submitted by Otis26 on October 9, 2008 - 9:33am.

Add Willie Aikens

Submitted by BasebalFan on October 13, 2008 - 6:40pm.

ya gotta keep Sweeney

Go Royals!

Submitted by BasebalFan on October 13, 2008 - 6:40pm.

ya gotta keep Sweeney

Go Royals!

Submitted by dsmith84 on October 9, 2008 - 1:33pm.

Sweeney was one of the top 10 hitters in the american league from 99-2002 as far as all around power, avg, and obp go, on teams with not much protection around him in the lineup.
He is a CAREER .299 hitter (over .300 with the Royals) who has slugged nearly .500 and gotten on base at nearly .370.
I know the guy got injured, but name one player (non george brett division) who did that for the royals for as long as Sweeney did. (He played in at least half of the teams games for 9 consecutive seasons).
Despite all of his injuries the guy produced during the part of his career where he was supposed to produce (Age 25 to Age 31).

Submitted by royalsfan36 on October 9, 2008 - 9:51am.

JD had some really fine years in K.C. and would make a good OF choice. I also agree that Wally Joyner would be a solid backup first baseman. What about Jeff King as well???
Gubicza has to be on that team I would think as well.
....how about Grudzielanek???
....Joe Randa maybe??? (I love me some Joker!)

Submitted by AIRmizzou on October 9, 2008 - 9:30am.

Not sure if I have seen Kevin Seitzer on here. MacFarland as a catcher possibility, as he was a doubles machine...Kurt Stillwell had a couple of good years, and had a howitzer for an arm...How about Dean Palmer? I'm not looking at any stats, and perhaps I should pull them up before running my yammer - but I thought he had a good year with us. I was never a fan of MacDougles, but what about his all-star year with us - he had a good save count to potentially throw in the bullpen.?.?
Danny Tartabull I saw mentioned already, but I give him a nod.
What about some speed? Tom Goodwin's best year? Vince COleman's best year?

Submitted by Racewriter on October 9, 2008 - 9:25am.

If this thing is strictly stat-based, Mike Aviles or Jay Bell should be the SS - Aviles' 2008 and Bell's 1997 are without question the two best offensive seasons put up by a Royals SS. I love Freddy Patek, but his best season hitting .271 will get weighed down by a bunch of .230 efforts.

As already noted, Dennis Leonard has to be on it - winningest RHP in the American League from 75-81 against a lot of other great RHP's. For catcher, Darrell Porter with John Wathan as a backup. Duke can also play OF and 1B, so that's a nice help. McFarlane if you're keeping three.

And what's with no love for Sweet Lou Piniella?

Submitted by nobadgerbear54 on October 9, 2008 - 8:50am.

This is great! Sam, you have a lot of really good help. Lots of suggestions and guys I completely forgot about. Lots of diehard longtime Royal devotees still remember that 10 year run from 75 to 85 and the quality of ballplayers that donned the powder blue. Busby with his 2 no hitters...my friends in town still ponder if Busby's arm hadn't blown up we would have beaten the Yankees earlier...76 and especially 77 would have been ours. Thanks for the great idea and thanks to all of Mellinger's minions for some great names to wax nostalgic with.

Submitted by nobadgerbear54 on October 9, 2008 - 8:39am.

how about Steve Farr in the pen, or any Combinations of Roger Nelson, Mark Littell, Marty Pattin, or maybe even AL Hrabosky. Strange as it seems, The Royals have had no real lefty dominate in the pen. Steve Mingori and Mike Magnante are the only two that come to mind. As far as the bench, Cookie has to be there, with Kevin in the infield. Backup 1B is actually Aikens over Balboni because Steve couldn't hit 250. Al Cowens as the backup RF, Pat Sheridan too. He couldn't hit for much power but he played consistently solid defense. I would take Aviles right now with just the one year as a utility IF. He had the best offensive year we have had at the spot since Freddie retired. NO...Buddy Biancalana and Onix Concepcion do not count.

Submitted by jonfmorse on October 9, 2008 - 8:27am.

Jay Bell. Best season ever by a Royals SS, and the awesome part is that season is the only one you get!

Submitted by dsmith84 on October 9, 2008 - 8:54am.

Jay Bell. from the always memorable 1997 club...
Chili Davis, Todd Van Poppell's one month stint with the royals. The Jon Nunnally trade for Scott Service. Oh the memories...

Submitted by JMGesling on October 9, 2008 - 8:27am.

Kurt Stilwell - SS, Bob Hamelin - DH (ROY season), Jim Colburn - SP ('77 season), Leibrandt ('85) - SP, Dick Drago - SP ('71)

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