Back to baseball: trade deadline approaches, Royals have needs, will deal

OK, wow, the national anthem thing sure got some response and is probably something we'll get back to in the future. But let's get to baseball today.

Mike Aviles sure had a bad night, and I'm not trying to pick on him, because he's been the most pleasant surprise of the season.

As Dutton wrote, he's earned a mulligan. That said, he misplayed two balls at shortstop and went 0-for-5 while stranding eight runners.

Better defense, and maybe Luke Hochevar doesn't give up six runs in six innings. A timely hit here or there and maybe the Royals score another run or two.

But again, this is not about criticizing Aviles. No Aviles, and the Royals are a lot worse off and little less hopeful than they are right now.

Aviles is due a bad night. But last night is one reason why he's probably not the long-term answer as the Royals' starting shortstop.

He's shown enough that you have to think he could be part of the Royals' future, but is still a better fit at 2B than SS.

The trade deadline is coming up, almost exactly four weeks, and the Royals do have some pieces that contenders would be interested in.

One of the byproducts of the wild card is that more teams are in contention, which means more teams are looking for help around the trade deadline.

The two most obvious (and likely?) candidates to be moved are Mark Grudzielanek and Ron Mahay. Grud is a proven veteran who any contender that's not solid at 2B could use.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure who that contender is right now. Not all the contenders have All-Stars like Chase Utley or Dan Uggla at 2B, but none of them have gaping holes there, either. An injury could change things.

Any contender would love to have Ron Mahay, a veteran lefty for the bullpen, reliable against both sides of the plate (and, actually, tougher against righties than lefties this year) and durable.

This would seem like the more likely place to make a move, especially since Mahay's contract (two years, $8 million) isn't enough to make even small-market teams flinch.

The wild card in this might be David DeJesus, having a terrific year, and sure to have some value on the trade market in part because he can play all three outfield positions.

They'd also be willing to trade Esteban German and Alberto Callaspo, though both players' value is diminished past the point where the Royals would like the offers.

I've been searching around online for some good targets and good fits and have a couple ideas I might share maybe next week.

But trading for a shortstop who might be big league ready in a year or two if not sooner makes a lot of sense for the Royals because Grud, in all probability, will be playing somewhere else next year.

The Royals could either trade Grud or see what kind of draft picks they might get for losing him, then make Aviles (or Callaspo, if he closes the gap) the second baseman and try to find a shortstop.

Submitted by Sam Mellinger on July 2, 2008 - 7:20am.
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Submitted by dfrench23 on July 2, 2008 - 1:57pm.

This just on today:

"Holliday gone after the All-Star break?
Matt Holliday | Rockies | Interested: Athletics? Royals? Dodgers? Angels? Rays? Cardinals?
According to the Rocky Mountain News, the Colorado Rockies are close to giving up on the rest of the season and making Matt Holliday available on the trade market.

Several clubs who've been scouting the Rockies say that the team will make the decision to deal players after the All-Star break, but with the team not likely to make up enough ground by then, it is the assumption that the Rockies will be sellers at the deadline. Players like Matt Holliday, Brian Fuentes and Willy Taveras are expected to be dangled as trade bait.

Holliday has garnered interest from the A's, Cardinals, Rays, Angels, Dodgers and Royals".

Submitted by dfrench23 on July 2, 2008 - 1:25pm.

I would not trade Butler. He will not bring back the type of value he's potentially worth. He's too young to give up.

Gload would be worth more to some contender as a LH bat off the bench and late-inning 1B. Trade him and see what BB can do at 1B...EVERY DANG DAY. You did it last year with Gordon - stuck with him through thick and thin and he's more than TWO YEARS older than BB. Stick with BB - kid can flat out hit.

Grud is an easy fit with anyone who has a 2B injury. Easy call.

Obviously Mahay might bring the most value.

Ramon Ramirez is a good idea, too...unless we are serious about moving Soria to the rotation and trying that out - whereas RR becomes our closer.

If anyone would want Gobble, German, or Peralta we should take the case of baseballs they are offering and say, "Thank you very much".

Submitted by dsmith84 on July 2, 2008 - 1:21pm.

It is early July and only one team, the Mariners, are more than 11.5 games out of their division lead. As the New York Mets should know, a lead like that doesn't take three months to disappear.
As some teams cool off and some teams get hot, some other teams will fall closer to the 15 games back range with only the final two months of the season to go, and they will go into sell mode.
But as of right now, most everybody feels like they are "in it", so lots of people are going to be looking to add missing pieces and subtract extra pieces or prospects that won't help them get there this season.

Mahay and Grud are the most likely to be shopped because they don't fit into the "future" of this team (basically because they are over 35)

who are some of the SS's and power OF's who will be available in free agency this year? if the market looks good it might be worth it to hang onto mahay since we supposedly could be contending next year, and he, combined with Nunez, R Ramirez, and Soria could be one of the best back ends in baseball, something that actually matters a whole lot when you are contending.

I agree that it might be worth just letting Grud go if no one wants him too bad (as long as we get at least the one "compensation" pick after the first round), it appears Aviles/Callaspo could at the least be a stop gap and at the best be a solid hitting, decent defense second baseman for a few seasons.

Submitted by dfrench23 on July 2, 2008 - 1:30pm.

Left fielders
Moises Alou (42)
Garret Anderson (37) - $14MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Milton Bradley (31)
Emil Brown (34)
Pat Burrell (32)
Adam Dunn (29)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Luis Gonzalez (41)
Raul Ibanez (37)
Jacque Jones (34)
Kevin Mench (31)
Jason Michaels (33) - $2.6MM club option for '09
Craig Monroe (32)
Jay Payton (36)
Wily Mo Pena (27) - $5MM club option or $2MM player option for '09
Manny Ramirez (37) - $20MM club option for '09
Juan Rivera (30)

Center fielders
Rocco Baldelli (27)
Mike Cameron (36) - $10MM club option for '09 with a $750K buyout
Jim Edmonds (39)
Jacque Jones (34)
Mark Kotsay (33)
Corey Patterson (29)

Right fielders
Bobby Abreu (35)
Casey Blake (35)
Milton Bradley (31)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Brian Giles (38) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Ken Griffey Jr. (39) - $16.5MM club option for '09 with a $4MM buyout
Vladimir Guerrero (33) - $15MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Jacque Jones (34)
Bobby Kielty (32)
Brad Wilkerson (32)

Submitted by dsmith84 on July 2, 2008 - 2:44pm.

I do not like the look of this list. The one guy having a super productive season (Bradley) had a run in with our broadcast team so odds are he will not want to come here...

Wily Mo Pena is a guy I thought had tons of potential, but apparently Washington's new stadium is just an offensive vaccuum and kills lots of big league dreams. Or maybe his numbers got inflated with the red sox since he was always well protected in that lineup.

Adam Dunn is the one intriguing guy, because he isn't THAT old (still only 29) and he's a pretty guaranteed commodity (near the league lead in strikeouts and homers). Seems like a guy we could plug in the 4 or 5 spot. But with our stadium dimensions, I am just not sure that is how to build this team.

Submitted by dfrench23 on July 2, 2008 - 1:29pm.

Orlando Cabrera (34)
David Eckstein (34)
Adam Everett (32)
Rafael Furcal (31)
Cristian Guzman (31)
Cesar Izturis (29)
Felipe Lopez (29)
Edgar Renteria (33) - $11MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Juan Uribe (30)
Omar Vizquel (42) - $5.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout

Submitted by dsmith84 on July 2, 2008 - 3:37pm.

Furcal is the only one of this bunch I like, and he is falling apart at the seams at the ripe old age of 31. an earlier stint on the DL, and another one seems eminent after he woke up with MAJOR pain today...
most of the others are journeymen who are struggling or just are not the right age for the Royals to seek.

Submitted by dfrench23 on July 2, 2008 - 12:50pm.

I wonder if Tampa Bay would like a veteran lefty in the bullpen who knows the Yankees and Red Sox like the back of his hand (Mahay).

Tampa has some interesting prospects including pitching out the wazoo and Reid Brignac (SS).

Submitted by dsmith84 on July 2, 2008 - 12:48pm.

they gave grud a heroes welcome at the interleague series in st. louis. by the end of it they weren't so happy since we kicked their butts, but yeah, he'd go back.
almost any player whose status would remain similar would rather play for a contender than a pretender. grud would go from being the everyday (okay, maybe 3/4 of the days the way his knees and back are) 2nd baseman for the royals, to being the same thing for the cardinals.

Submitted by dfrench23 on July 2, 2008 - 1:54pm.

I wonder what kind of value Grud would have?

Definitely not the Cardinals' top prospects (Memphis strikeout pitcher Jaime Garcia or now AAA outfielder Shane Robinson, who hit .352 at Double-A this season) right?

Submitted by SconieRoyal on July 2, 2008 - 12:08pm.

A guy is hitting .270 with 1 HR, has no defense, and the slowest guy on the team. And he's untradeable? There isn't a fulltime 1B/DH thats been less productive than he's been. And that's including Gload and a few teams backup 1B/DH.

I'm not even saying we should trade him, I just think it's indefensible to say trading him is "insane".

Submitted by PRL on July 2, 2008 - 3:25pm.

Butler is a 240 pound Ichiro without the speed or defense. Otherwise known as "The White Ken Harvey." At least Ken could play a decent 1B...something the Royals have apparently decided that Billy just can't do.

Submitted by dfrench23 on July 2, 2008 - 9:18pm.

Ken Harvey was THE WORST first baseman I've ever seen wear a KC jock strap.

I seem to remember two plays that I witnessed that were within a few weeks of each other. Correct me if I'm wrong but one had to do with a weird throwing error on a ball hit to him and another was when the cutoff throw in came to him and he turned his back and it plunked him as he squatted to get out of the way.

He was terrible.

Submitted by Aaron Barnhart ... on July 2, 2008 - 11:41am.

You probably saw last night on the game that DirecTV is moving the FSN Kansas City to Channel 672, three months after assigning it to 648. That begins today.

TiVo owners have been having their own FSN issues, so I am happy to report that in the middle of the night, the TV listings for channel 59 on TWC finally FINALLY switched over from eastern Mo. to western MO. listings. Which means I no longer have to TiVo, say, an hour of Sports Science and then the "Cardinals game" in order to record a road Royals game that started an hour before the STL game.

More if you follow this shameless link to my site.

Submitted by kcdc on July 2, 2008 - 11:14am.

I haven't checked out the need amongst contenders for a cather, but you'd think Olivo or Buck might garner some interest.

Submitted by chuck on July 2, 2008 - 1:04pm.

I brought this up the other day in the comments section for a KCStar article and I'm surprised no one else has mentioned it. How about giving Olivo a shot at first base? He seems to be athletic enough to make the switch and I'm sure he'd prefer to play somewhere, anywhere, as opposed to riding the pine. OBP isn't quite as high as Gload's but SLG and OPS is no contest...

Submitted by jtuck123 on July 3, 2008 - 6:53am.

...and I think it's one that Trey and Dayton have definitely thought about, but Gload isn't hitting the ball all that bad as of lately and his defence is superb...I would like to see Olivo maybe get some time in the outfield or 1st base...
JT

Submitted by JBTischer on July 2, 2008 - 11:09am.

Ok, all you Guillen fans, do you have any defense for Jose's defense Tuesday night?

I think this guy has gotten a fairly easy ride so far, with a lot of you giving him the benefit of the doubt because of his "candor" and the Royals' need for a toughened winning approach and attitude. I was glad to hear Paul Splitorff call out Guillen for his total lack of effort on a gapper fly ball (that Gathright luckily ran down) and his B-league rainbow throw home that allowed the two other baserunners to waltz to the next base. This guy has talent - when he wants to play. I wonder if any teammates ranted in expletives and called him out for this ridiculously sloppy play like he did a few weeks ago? I'm guessing not - probably not worth the trouble. He seems to be one of those people who likes to talk with "refreshing candor", but can't handle the candid truth when it's spoken of him.

Submitted by jtuck123 on July 2, 2008 - 12:01pm.

I'd like to see someone call out Jose...especially after the great throw that he made to Aviles who didn't even relay the throw home (when clearly the runner would have been out at the plate and 2 more runs wouldn't have scored)...

But, you know, Jose Guillen isn't really that good and he isn't really producing like we wanted him to...Plus he's just a clubhouse cancer and nobody likes him...Heck, didn't he say that he (expletive) hates the fans?

Look, all I have to say is Jose Guillen can't carry this terrible/sometimes good team by himself...(Pardon me for using the term "terrible/sometimes good", but any team that goes on a 12 game losing streak and follows it up with winning 11 of 12 has some issues in consistency) It's too much for one player to take. Jose Guillen is gonna get criticized if he does one little thing wrong. I don't think that's fair to him. Alex Gordon can go 0-5 with 3 strikeouts and nobody says anything bad about him...But if Jose Guillen only goes 1-5 with a game-winning RBI, they criticize him for only getting one hit...What's wrong in that situation?
The dude has a mouth, and sometimes that can get him in a spot of trouble, but who does he always include in the blame? Himself.

I think Jose Guillen is exactly what the Royals need right now, not because he can yell and scream expletives all over the place, but because he is producing like MAD! When he goes on a 0-25 run, then you can start complaining about his lack of hustle and ability. But when he is still producing game winning hits, give the guy some slack if he can't run out a routine groundball...

JT

Submitted by Aaron Barnhart ... on July 2, 2008 - 11:33am.

Jose Guillen is one of those players we're going to look back on in three or four years and say, "Remember when he was our big bat?" He's a benchmark, a sign of our desperation for bats while the club focuses on building its pen.

When the offense comes along, Guillen will be long gone, his colorful remarks a click away for any Royals fan who wants to reminisce (not unlike Cubs fans who can never hear that Lee Elia tirade enough times).

Submitted by Sam Mellinger on July 2, 2008 - 2:51pm.

....back when Emil Brown led the team in RBIs three straight years, once with 62.

That's the benchmark sign of ineptitude.

Submitted by kcdc on July 2, 2008 - 10:58am.

The Cardinals certainly look the part of a contender that could use a 2B. To an extent, the White Sox could fit the bill as well.

Factoring in the likely higher asking prices and salaries for other potentially available 2B (Ray Durham, Mark Ellis), Grud looks like a decent enough acquisition for the Cards.

Submitted by jtuck123 on July 2, 2008 - 11:13am.

...want to go back? I don't know why he left St. Louis in the first place, but he was only there for a year...Would they even want him back?
JT

Submitted by Xero Pascal on July 3, 2008 - 1:03pm.

The only reason he left is because they wouldn't offer him a contract.

Submitted by jayhawkowensjunior on July 2, 2008 - 10:34am.

...because there's generally nothing I hate more than someone responding to a comment with "You're stupid" or the equivalent. And I would normally go point by point, examining the flaws in your argument, etc. Except in this case, I feel as though that would be pointing out the obvious. So please don't construe this as "flaming" you, as a personal attack, or the equivalent of "I disagree with you, therefore you're stupid." Please take my word for it that I've thought this through and only come up with one response that expresses what I truly feel about the idea of trading Billy Butler:

Your idea is insane.

Submitted by lakewoodroyal on July 2, 2008 - 11:47am.

no offense taken. I'm interested in hearing the points to keep Butler. Last year in 92 games he hit 8 home runs. This year in 52 games he's got 1. Are hitting doubles and singles the reason to keep him on as a DH long-term?

Submitted by KC Chris on July 2, 2008 - 12:55pm.

I'd be all right with trading Butler. He may go on to be very good, but I think we could get a reasonable amount of talent back with him as part of a trade package, and it's not like we're going to be able to keep every young player when arb and FA come around. I mean, we've got Meche, Guillen, and Soria for a few more years, maybe we sign Greinke, Gordon, and ??? long term, one more FA this year... we're running through Mr. Glasses money pretty quickly (which I'm not opposed to), but the well will go dry at some point.

So, trading Butler makes some sense. We may wish we had him in the future, but trading him now (as a package) might net us multiple players for next year and beyond. And it's not like he's providing a whole bunch to the club right now anyway.

Submitted by jtuck123 on July 3, 2008 - 6:17am.

I don't think the well will ever run dry as long as Walmart still has lower prices than any other grocery store ever!
JT

Submitted by KC Chris on July 3, 2008 - 11:56am.

I don't think Glass is going to go broke, I just think he'll turn into the soup nazi again at some point.

Submitted by jtuck123 on July 2, 2008 - 12:04pm.

What doubles? I don't think I've seen a double from Butler in quite a while...But I would agree on the whole DH only hitting singles and not being able to move so quick...Butler needs a few hours a day on the treadmill and in the weight room...
JT

Submitted by lakewoodroyal on July 2, 2008 - 12:20pm.

Or he could give up meat like Fielder. Now that guy can move.

Submitted by jtuck123 on July 3, 2008 - 6:18am.

Since we were going in order...I figured Home Runs was next...and yes, Billy should lay off the meat, go vegan...
JT

Submitted by hawklet05eagle09 on July 2, 2008 - 9:35am.

talking baseball again. Sam, I really agree with what you're saying. Grud is the obvious candidate here. Aviles is a more natural fit at 2B anyway. The real question is what can we get for him - is the SS spot going to be filled from the trade - or are we going to have to play mr. DUI callaspo or german.

Don't know how great the farm looks for SS - how is Moustakas doing - seen his stats but what are people saying about him.

As to whomever said something about Soria moving to the starting rotation - shouldnt happen and don't think it will. He's a closer. I think he'd lose a lot of his effectiveness getting into the higher pitch counts.

Submitted by JGep on July 2, 2008 - 9:15am.

I disagree about the need for a Short Stop. We have the Short Stops of the future down on the farm, so we don't need a long term answer there. I think Aviles can fill in nicely there for a few years, and then move to 2B. But, I am not convinced that Callaspo can't play at the ML level either. This kid can hit. If you put him at 2B and Aviles at SS, I think you are fine. You don't have Freddy Patek or U.L. Washington at SS, or Frank White or Grud at 2B, but I think they are good enough to contend with. And, that is assuming that Grud is even gone. Who is to say that he won't be here even next year? I would not bet against that at all. What you can't do, is give up future foundation players. And, be real, what foundation SS are you going to get? What do you have to give up to get that SS? Soria? Greinke? No, in the real world, a SS that is a dramatic improvement over what you already have will only come through the farm system or free agency. Through trade is only robbing Peter to pay Paul, unless you are overloaded at another position. So, tell me, what other position do we have an all star caliber player sitting on the bench or in the minors? Yeah, I didn't think so. I could not stand John Schuerholz as GM (Burke built the Royals, and Cox built the Braves, J.S. was only a LUCKY caretaker, and even at that, the Royals started their long term decline when he took over). Then Herk and Allard made me wish we had J.S. again...lol. But, Dayton reminds me a lot of Burke (And some Tallis), so simply put, let's just trust Dayton, and give him time. They guy gets it. He is buildint this team the RIGHT way. It takes time to repair all the destructions his predecessors did! A LOT of time. They did a LOT of destruction!

Submitted by lakewoodroyal on July 2, 2008 - 8:57am.

I don't think we need to rehash much more than you put Sam, because I agree with all of it. However - you left off another wildcard.

What about Butler?

What would it take for you to get rid of a player with marginal defensive skills (the org has all but given up on him at 1B), no speed and the power to slap singles and doubles to the gap?

I know I'll get flamed for this, but here is another case of the Royals waiting on a draft pick to live up to his "projections". What do we do if he's still slapping singles as a DH in two years? Wouldn't it be smarter to see what kind of value you could get from him from other teams right now? My guess is there would be better deals made based on his upside potential than if we wait a couple years and the stats are the same. Nobody will want a singles hitting DH with zero speed.

This is where I feel like this organization goes wrong every year. They wait on guys to mature. They bring them up early and hope that in 4-5 years they might actually turn out. Minnesota and Oakland do a great job of not letting the fruit begin to rot before they dump or trade. If a player isn't showing the signs of where he needs to be within 2 years of hitting the bigs, they move on.

Submitted by Aaron Barnhart ... on July 2, 2008 - 11:27am.

I disagree that this is the precise time to be shopping BB. I agree that the Royals brought him up with their usual haste, but Dayton is trying to manage the cards he was dealt and if he thinks there is untapped value there, then he's a fool to sell. The kid is only 22.

As for the vaunted Minnesota talent organization, two words: Lew Ford. Yes, he had a wonderful rookie year, but the Twins kept him on for three more seasons of Butleresque production and released him well past his sell-by date; he's now in Japan.

Comparing those clubs to the Royals won't really work until Dayton has stocked the farm system, top-to-bottom, with his talent. Dealing Butler would likely mean he plays AAA ball for another team until he's ready to play MLB - and ready to make us all rue the day Dayton dealt him.

That said, hoo boy, is he a work in progress. How about that play in Baltimore where he was jogging back to third at the moment when the throw from the outfield went wildly off line? A veteran MLB player, even a fat one, scores on that play, don't you think? It's one of those plays that makes you wonder what is going through the kid's skull besides a strong breeze...

Submitted by lakewoodroyal on July 2, 2008 - 12:04pm.

All of your points also give arguements to move him. He's 22 is not really that much of an arguement for a guy who doesn't play the field and only concentrates on hitting. In a situation like that, you hope that you have a guy who is either all HR or strikeouts. Then you could say he's young and needs to work on taking the ball in other directions instead of striking out. But at this point, there is nothing numbers-wise that points to him being one of the best hitters in Royals history. Nothing. If you want to point to his minor league stats, the Royals could roll out a bus load of guys who tore it up through Omaha and could never hit for power in the majors.

So did that make sense for the Twins to keep Ford? Or should they have traded him while the value was high after year two or three? This is exactly my point on Butler. What do you do if at age 25, Billy Butler is still slapping singles and doubles and is averaging less than 20 HR's a season - As a DH?

Are we looking at the best slugging Royals hitter of all-time or Matt Stairs with no defense? What will you think if Butler finishes the season with less than 10 HR's and a .275 average? Keep in mind you'll be two years in on him and about the same amount of AB's and games played. How long do you hold out for the projections to happen?

Submitted by KC_Jake on July 2, 2008 - 7:33am.

I agree Aviles is definately the long term guy at second and Grud would be ideal fit for somwhere like Milwaukee that could use some veterans down the stetch. And if it could screw the cardinals out of a playoff birth its all good with me. BUT lets hold the phone on Mahay, this guy is keeping our bullpen together without him throwing two innings in crucial situations we would be five or six games worse this year. Lets hold on to ole Ronnie for next years playoff push.

Submitted by lakewoodroyal on July 2, 2008 - 9:04am.

Holding onto Mahay would be the worse thing the Royals could do if they intend to truely BUILD this franchise. See: David Riske

You get the absolute best bunch of prospects you can get for him and move on.

Submitted by jtuck123 on July 2, 2008 - 8:24am.

I agree completely with keeping Mahay...we need a solid lefty reliever in the bullpen and I don't think John Bale, Jimmy Gobble, or Horacio Ramirez are the answers...(although Horacio Ramirez hasn't done too terrible yet)
We do have the right handed relief that we need in Ramon Ramirez and maybe, just maybe Robinson Tejeda...

So, where does that leave someone with some trade value, like Leo Nunez? I like Leo and I think he's a great reliever, but we have some arms that can get us by in that category. Is there any way the Royals would trade Nunez?
JT

Submitted by BigGuyDon on July 2, 2008 - 9:07am.

Nunez is a pretty obvious replacement for Soria WHEN he moves to the rotation. Ramirez as set up man. And with the depth in our minor league system that will be ready to contribute in the majors (Rosa, Cortes, etc.) we should be able to load the middle relief with young arms easily capable of getting us to the backend of the bullpen.

Meanwhile, Soria is a second ACE for this staff that is wasted on being a closer. If a kid comes up, bat .310 and hits 17 homers in the 8th spot in your batting order, you don't keep him there because "He's so good at it"; you move him up to the 3rd or 4th spot (unless the guys you have there are already better than that) because those are the most important spots in the lineup. Starters are more important than closers; if you need evidence, look how much even just good ones get paid versus the top closers.

I don't think we're going to get much of anything for Grud or for any of the players mentioned here. These days, teams don't give up real prospects for short terms loans of mediocre veterans. Dotel had much more value last year than anyone on this year's team, and we only got Kyle Davies for him, who had all but washed out of the Atlanta rotation.

To get the SS help and/or OF help we need, we'll probably have to trade something we don't want to (i.e. Gordon, Greinke or minor league A pitching prospects). I don't want to, but the alternative is waiting three more years before any of the position talent is ready to compete.

Submitted by KC Chris on July 2, 2008 - 1:08pm.

but his delivery is so violent, I think he's going to be injury prone for his whole career. This year it's his lat, next year it'll be elbow, then his shoulder, then... anyway, I really like Nunez and don't want to get rid of him, but I think we would be selling high on him if we did so this year.

Submitted by jtuck123 on July 2, 2008 - 11:12am.

I see no reason in the world for Dayton Moore, Trey Hillman, David Glass, George Bush, Bill Gates, Donald Trump or Hugh Hefner to move Soria to the rotation...What's more important, having one pretty good pitcher that pitches every 5 days or having a closer who can, if healthy, pitch every day and close out a ball game that the Royals during any previous season had a great chance of losing? I'm gonna go with the closer...
JT

Submitted by BigGuyDon on July 2, 2008 - 1:12pm.

That's how many "save opportunities" we've been able to get for Soria so far this season. Your question should be "What's more important, a GREAT pitcher that pitches every 5 days for 6-8 innings or a GREAT pitcher who pitches every four days for 1 inning?". The answer is painfully clear.

An average closer would have closed 18 or more of those 23 chances. You think our record wouldn't have been better with Soria making 17 starts instead of Tomko, Bale and Davies? Seriously.

Submitted by jtuck123 on July 3, 2008 - 6:33am.

Look, the Royals aren't going to contend this year...and to be painfully honest, they aren't going to contend next year either (most likely). So, what is more important to a ball club struggling to win games when they are ahead in the late innings? I agree that he could be a started sometime in the future if we had to, but right now, when we have good enough starting pitching to give us a chance to win, Soria should be where he is.

The only other thing that would be a problem for him would be the change from closer to SP. We would have to send him to AAA for a little while to get him accustomed to pitching longer. I see a lot of positives to making him a starter, but many more as a closer...
JT

Submitted by kcdc on July 3, 2008 - 7:34am.

This is a silly argument. Soria has been damn near unhittable in the bullpen....but Nunez, Ramirez, and Mahay have also performed nearly as well. If you slide any one their performances into the closer's role this year, you might lose 1 or 2 more games in the 9th tops. Even if you say Soria will be much more hittable in the starting rotation and give him a hypothetical 3.8 ERA, don't we think replacing Tomko, Bale, and Davies with a 3.8 ERA all year improves our record more than 1 or 2 wins? It's not close. This isn't up for debate.

Also, for the record, when discussing the merits of using a player in the starting rotation vs in the bullpen, you don't really get to use qualifiers like "when they are ahead in the late innings." In an unrelated story, chocolate ice cream was recently found to be indisuptably *better* than NY strips when you're in the mood for a sweet chocolately dessert that is chocolate ice cream.

Submitted by jtuck123 on July 3, 2008 - 7:51am.

I'm not saying you're wrong...I actually think he'd be a great starter. But for right now, I think his role as a closer makes him more valuable to this team. And the transition to starter would take him off of the Major League roster for some time. I have no doubt that R. Ramirez and Mahay and H. Ramirez could do a great job of closing, but I'm just saying that we should leave him where he is for right now. Not to mention, the Royals are actually trying with the rotation instead of doing what they would normally do. = getting rid of terrible pitchers like Tomko and moving Bale out of the rotation...I think if the Royals would have wanted to put Soria in the rotation, they would have already done it by now.
JT

Submitted by lakewoodroyal on July 2, 2008 - 8:38am.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd package anyone in the pen except Soria. At worse, if he lost his touch he could be a durable relief guy. At best he's our closer for many years. Outside of that, I'd let Nunez go in a heartbeat if it meant we could get younger arms. RRamierez, while doing well for us now, could also be very nice trade bait for a two for one deal with someone. I'd let Bale go for a steak dinner and Gobble (while I loved watching this kid come through the system) has all but worn out his stay in KC. He's sliding faster than he's improving.

They'll probably keep Tejada to see what they have, but in my mind he could be a proverbial "player to be named" if we needed one.

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